EU Referendum

Lord Soley

An interesting bit of footwork by David Cameron on an EU referendum. I’m not sure that it will unify his party but it is a good try!
Thinking about events over the last few weeks it is hard to see how Britain is going to stay a full member of the EU. The banking crisis will lead to full banking union within the EU and we are likely to be outside that for some considerable time. The long term effect on the city of London will be serious.
We have also marginalised ourselves during the current Euro crisis. I hope we don’t need the support other countries in the EU in the near future as they will remember how we failed to support them. This was a failure of British statesmanship and may well cost us dear.

15 comments for “EU Referendum

  1. Dave H
    02/07/2012 at 6:39 am

    Smoke and mirrors. He’s just trying to shut people up without giving them anything.

    Cameron needs to announce the intention to have a referendum on a particular day and set in train the legislation to support it. Then he can go to the EU and point to that date and say that we will have a referendum to choose between leaving the EU and whatever our relationship is at that point. That might focus the EU hive mind a bit because they’d be responsible for encouraging us to stay, assuming they wanted us (and our money and fish).

    • Lord Blagger
      02/07/2012 at 9:17 am

      Of course it is.

      Now is the time to decide before the EU blows up.

      The Peers want us to hug a suicide bomber. No thanks, I want to be as far away as possible.

  2. Lord Blagger
    02/07/2012 at 7:51 am

    Far from it.

    The EU’s problem is too much government debt. Too much for them to pay back.

    The bailout is just more government debt.

    EU banks will be forced to invest capital in government debt. It’s been the aim. The ECB wasn’t allowed to fund governments. However, if they fund banks, and you force banks to invest their capital in government bonds, you’ve achieved the aim, for the moment.

    So when those governments who won’t implement austerity default, you take all the EU banks out.

    That is worth avoiding.

    • Gareth Howell
      02/07/2012 at 11:11 am

      The EU’s problem is too much government debt. Too much for them to pay back.

      You might also say that their problem is knowing precisely what the value of the currency is, against other world currencies.
      The one problem would resolve the other.

      Higher value…. not so much to pay back.

      I sometimes listen to economists and bankers but not that often.

      I live on a corner of a road which leads to
      the last labour prime minister’s country home. It’s been renamed Brettonwoods corner, after he stopped to greet me one day while still in office. The weird things is that Mrs Brett and Mr Woods lived in the house on the corner more than 50 years ago. There are standards to uphold and they are not made of silver.

  3. Gareth Howell
    02/07/2012 at 8:27 am

    The real effect of our being PH67(Post Hiroshima)which is the remorseless unification of distinct supranational [regions] of the world, will only be felt when everybody knows which those supranational organisations are, and how they interact.

    When they do the UK government will know that
    monetary union is also remorseless in the long run.

    Until then they will shilly shally on account of the senior partnership of the German bank in the ECB.

    If one of these potential defaulters could succeed in defaulting and going back to its own currency, the simplicity of joining
    the eurozone would become apparent.

    The exponential increase in the use of cashless money, cards and internet transfers, surely favours a simple monetary union for the use of, simply, cash.

    How many people do pay with cash these days?

  4. MilesJSD
    02/07/2012 at 8:34 am

    The Avoided Key Factor, Isasue, & Task is “Sustainworthiness”.

    There is no Nation-State in the World, let alone only in Europe, within the United Kingdom, the United States, or the Commonwealth of Independent States, Arab-, NATO-, SEATO-alliances (and so on and round-and-round)

    that is longest-term Environmentally*-Sustainworthy** and Ecolo-economicly-Sustainable***.
    requirements are assessed separately).

    This is because, among other unsustainworthinesses, various Constitutions and Key-Equations such as in Economics, Environmental-Sustainability, Individual-Human-Development, Aggregate-Human-Development, Education, Training, and Social-Structure
    are wrong,
    destructively and extinctingly imbalanced and imbalancing,
    towards not only all Human Civilisations extant around the World
    but of the Earth’s Lifesupports overall.
    * = Using the JSDM 7-fold Holistic-Living Model’s fourth domain wherein “Environmental”-Needs covers Orders of
    1. Bio-
    2. Built-
    3. Places-
    4. People- friendly, neutral, volatile, hostile.
    [NB Workplace and Jobs skills are assessed separately].

    ** = within Human Civilisation(s)

    *** = towards and within the greater Earth’s Lifesupports.

  5. maude elwes
    02/07/2012 at 12:03 pm

    A referendum would indeed be good. Direct Democracy is true democracy after all. Just as long as the voters are given a long and arduous repetition of the benefits we all have from belonging to the EU. You know, the same amount of indoctrination we receive via the media and the press given to us daily on how that dreaded ‘Human Rights Act,’ (drawn up by mostly UK lawyers)is not in their best interests as it is this that keeps terrorists in our midst, or murdereres walking our streets.

    Which brings me to, will both Parties tell us ‘truthfully’ what they will be getting rid of that is currently forced on us by the unacceptable EU? Especially the part that favours gentlemen farmers benefit payments so rife for those in the House of Lords. The ones they keep secret that is not allowed to be revealed by FOI.

    Once we all have the open sides to this European debate and can judge what is in our best interests accordingly, then referendum would be the perfect answer. If it isn’t fixed US style that is.

    You know the one I mean.

    • maude elwes
      13/07/2012 at 1:31 pm

      I want to back this post up with an example press propaganda….

      We hear from our European haters, via their daily beasts, those that are owned and often edited, by the rich men they serve, that, The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, was asked by a government department of some kind, to produce a study on poverty. And they did. Here it is discussed. It didn’t make those in office happy.

      It tells us that many countries world wide have a safeguard tactic for those who are in poverty in our society.

      Yet, when this was exposed by the, The Daily Mail Home Affairs Editor, it was presented thus, in order to give the readers the notion that this dreaded right to life was introduced and forwared by the Europen Commission on Human Rights.

      They follow it up a day or two later with a picture of a couple of people wearing hoods and a woman with a muffin top belly drinking beer.

      Yet, here is how they phrase the fight for the Lords to keep their benefits paid for by the tax payers, which is given out at around £140,000 per annum each pro rata. They get this sum simply for turning up and having a good sleep on the red benches, followd by a subsidised meal or two, along with a nice drinking club for the pass also subsidesed by the people of this country.

      Now isn’t it odd how they get so excited by the idea of the public getting some of what they are forced to donate, back, because the majority of people on benefits of one kind or another, are people who paid into this dupe because they trusted government would stick to their word if the times became difficult for them.

      Oh, and note the people they throw up in the picture on that page, who supposedly claim these benefits, look as if they are white yobs from the Ponce de Leon club. When this picture is not at all representative of the majority of people who do claim benefits. Most benefit claimants are the elderly and sick who were duped into paying out of their hard earned income on the promise of welfare from cradle to grave.

      This story in the press is going to morph over the weeks into, the EU is at the back of widening the Human Rights Act to include the right to sue government for their benefit claims.

      Also this article tells us that, Sir Leigh Lewis, chairman of ‘the panel,’ (no panel given in the story) said, I am pleased that the Commission has published this second Consultation Paper. We want to hear from as many individuals and interested parties as possible.’ Strangely, no address, phone number or email contact was given for those who may want offer some information, or, whatever else they may have on their mind, to this man.

      All I was able to find out on the internet was, this man, Leigh Lewis, worked or works for Broadway the Homeless Charity.

      What is it these rich men and politicians so fear about Human Rights in this country, along with the chums in the USA? They use the same phrases US slave owners squealed so incessantly when Lincoln tried to free them. ‘They are scoundrels was the cry. They are lazy and not worth the cost of their keep.’ Funny they fought a four year war to hang on to them then, if that was the truth.

      So, anyone who wants to contact Leigh Lewis and reads this blog, they now can do so.

  6. Gareth Howell
    04/07/2012 at 5:12 am

    Cameron is making off the cuff remarks about everything and all departments of state at the moment, so just one more on the EU and a possible referendum is no big deal.

    Even something called Jimmy Carr.

  7. 11/07/2012 at 2:16 am

    Lord Soley,
    Here is a worst case scenario. The Eurozone enters into a stalemate on fiscal policy with the City of London which shatters the stock markets and treasuty rates. Russia feels it must tie its mineral future and money more to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and all of this cuases the European market to collapse in terms of world buying power beyond any real recession.
    The United States is moving toward a Great Depression preliminary state as Stockton, California and Detroit, Michigan and Scranton Pennsylvania and others begin to collapse from a fiscal point of view and this adds to the uncertainty of municipal bonds money will seek more exotic refuges. China wants firmer money than anyone in the West except Germany and that is not a trend. The US health care crisis may well explode. Money supply becomes heremetically locked down. The United States structural flaws are all exposed at the same time.
    Tensions increase to the point that shipping lane protection is diminished and minor actors are emboldened to hit these choke points in various ways.
    If something along these lines happens then I think we could face the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. America has less structural resilience than at any time since the Second World War and really desperate Europe is closer than at any time since the postwar era.

  8. Lord Blagger
    11/07/2012 at 2:08 pm

    The United States is moving toward a Great Depression preliminary state as Stockton, California and Detroit, Michigan and Scranton Pennsylvania and others begin to collapse from a fiscal point of view and this adds to the uncertainty of municipal bonds money will seek more exotic refuges.


    Notice – government debts that have gone tits up.

    If something along these lines happens then I think we could face the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression.

    It’s inevitable. The state debts are so vast that they can’t be paid. Governments have resorted to fraudulent accounting by hiding the pensions debts off the books. The UK governments rational is that they can change the law and not pay the state pension, so it means the don’t have to account for it. Take a moment to think that through.

    The state pension isn’t a debt because we can refuse to pay it. Think about the impact that has on the vast majority of people in the UK. They would be screwed. If they can’t pay the state pension, the certainly can’t afford the welfare bill needed if almost all retirees have no money.

    • 12/07/2012 at 12:09 pm

      Lord Blagger,
      You may be right about almost everything you just posted…

      • Lord Blagger
        12/07/2012 at 3:03 pm

        I am, and the consequences are dire. Just look at Greece for a taster. Remember that Greece hasn’t hit the bottom yet, because its receiving vast amounts of cash from elsewhere in the EU.

        The UK is too big to be bailed out in any way.

        So that means the UK will be worse than Greece, all thanks to the fraudsters in Westminster.

        Notice how when it comes to expertise in the Lords, they can’t get anyone to come here and debate government accounts.

        • maude elwes
          13/07/2012 at 6:19 pm

          It takes a lot to persuade you guys that the answer is out there, but you simply refuse to absorb that idea.

          Playing the same old tune by regurgitating what we all know is not the answer to relief. The answer is to think out of the box. To delve into that which, to this point, you see as unacceptable. Capitalism has failed. And unless those in power accept that, and treat this as if it is war, because seriously, that is what it is, then, yes, we are going to suffer far more than Greece. They are resourceful with the basics of life, we are not. We are the equivalent of US soldiers trying to beat the Vietcong on their own soil, with their own level of poverty, it was absurd. They didn’t have the stomach for it, and we dont have the stomach for this mess we are in either.

          My favourite Prof tells it here.

          And this is where to start thinking the unthinkable. Try to humble yourselves a little and come into the light. He recaps somewhat, but, listen to the food for thought.

          • Lord Blagger
            16/07/2012 at 10:09 am

            It hasn’t failed, it hasn’t been tried. Bailing out the banks is socialism. Gordon wanted to nationalise the banks.

            What you also fail to realise is that its statism that has failed. The idea that the state can help people, when the reality is that is has ripped them off.

            The simple example of this is state debt. They are hiding all the real debts, the debts that matter, because they can’t pay. That’s the failure in Greece. It’s not capitalism, its fraud in government.

            The same applies in Portugal, Spain, Italy, the UK, the USA, …

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